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	<title>Comments on: The Pricey GPL Thought&#160;Experiment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/</link>
	<description>About Web, Design and the Future of Publishing</description>
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		<title>By: watt</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11185</link>
		<dc:creator>watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11185</guid>
		<description>Stop obsessing about charging for plugin code. Give plugin code away as GPL, this will be your marketing. (People can see that plugin code is clean, is not harmful to run, that plugin is safe to use.)

Charge for [optional, but essential] access to your servers (API). End of story.

And yes, if plugin is GPL, and somebody provides a patch (bugfix or feature), that&#039;s a net benefit for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop obsessing about charging for plugin code. Give plugin code away as GPL, this will be your marketing. (People can see that plugin code is clean, is not harmful to run, that plugin is safe to use.)</p>
<p>Charge for [optional, but essential] access to your servers (API). End of story.</p>
<p>And yes, if plugin is GPL, and somebody provides a patch (bugfix or feature), that&#8217;s a net benefit for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Chip Bennett</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11109</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11109</guid>
		<description>Either option is valid under the terms of the GPL, which only stipulates that if the work is conveyed, it must be done so under the GPL (or compatible) license and source code must be made available upon request. Both of those requirements can be met, whether the work is sold (cost to download) or connected to a service (cost for subscription).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Either option is valid under the terms of the GPL, which only stipulates that if the work is conveyed, it must be done so under the GPL (or compatible) license and source code must be made available upon request. Both of those requirements can be met, whether the work is sold (cost to download) or connected to a service (cost for subscription).</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11105</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11105</guid>
		<description>My point about charging for time and effort was really that there are two models. The service model where you agree to provide something for a price and then provide it, and the product model where you produce something and then ask someone if they want one.

In the first you can charge based on time irrespective of the value, in the second you need to factor in your development costs in the sale price then figure out if you can sell enough at the necessary price to make a return. If you can&#039;t then all your time and effort does indeed go unrewarded.

What you have come up with seems entirely reasonable. Anyone who wants the code can get it and end users pay for your product.

The downside is that your entire model relies on trust. There are a number of whatifs that kill your revenue stream:

First: what if someone forks it, releases it, and promotes it better than you? You seem like the untrusted copy instead of the original.

Second: What if WordPress 3.0 has your code added to it?

Of course, licensing doesn&#039;t prevent this, it just means you can have your day in court, if you can afford it, to try and reclaim revenue, but GPL makes it easy to happen. That is why the premium themers are promoting support services so heavily.

There are people who already successfully charge for plugins and they do it by just not putting it on wp.org. In effect they sell to people who sell it on to end users and it never goes any further so it is entirely feasible as long as the target market is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point about charging for time and effort was really that there are two models. The service model where you agree to provide something for a price and then provide it, and the product model where you produce something and then ask someone if they want one.</p>
<p>In the first you can charge based on time irrespective of the value, in the second you need to factor in your development costs in the sale price then figure out if you can sell enough at the necessary price to make a return. If you can&#8217;t then all your time and effort does indeed go unrewarded.</p>
<p>What you have come up with seems entirely reasonable. Anyone who wants the code can get it and end users pay for your product.</p>
<p>The downside is that your entire model relies on trust. There are a number of whatifs that kill your revenue stream:</p>
<p>First: what if someone forks it, releases it, and promotes it better than you? You seem like the untrusted copy instead of the original.</p>
<p>Second: What if WordPress 3.0 has your code added to it?</p>
<p>Of course, licensing doesn&#8217;t prevent this, it just means you can have your day in court, if you can afford it, to try and reclaim revenue, but GPL makes it easy to happen. That is why the premium themers are promoting support services so heavily.</p>
<p>There are people who already successfully charge for plugins and they do it by just not putting it on wp.org. In effect they sell to people who sell it on to end users and it never goes any further so it is entirely feasible as long as the target market is right.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaspars</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11104</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaspars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11104</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-11103&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew&lt;/a&gt;, you understood and answered my questions perfectly, thank you.

&lt;blockquote&gt;You cannot be paid for your time and effort without agreeing beforehand that the customer will pay for that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But I need to create a product &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; I can sell it. In fact, every product is created in hopes of recouping the costs only after it has gone on sale.

Or are you saying that my time spent working on a GPL plugin doesn&#039;t qualify as work for which I can charge (indirectly) by applying a price to the resulting product? Does it even matter if I am charging for my work or for hosting the API?

I am trying to figure out a way to generate revenue from WordPress plugins or themes which doesn&#039;t limit the access to the product and at the same time gives reason to pay for it. Here is what I have come up with, so far:

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Release a plugin and charge users $10 for downloading it.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Make the source code available &lt;strong&gt;freely&lt;/strong&gt; through an SVN repository, so that those who know how to use it and are most likely to improve or help fix it can use it for free.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Charge $5 for any update that adds new features while bug fix and security releases are free for everyone.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

If someone decides to fork the plugin and upload it to the WordPress repository everytime there is a new update, they are free to do it and I wouldn&#039;t mind. I would still remain the trustworthy source of the original.

This way the whole community could enjoy the continued development of the plugin while the contributing users would receive certain percentage of the revenue generated by that particular update.

I don&#039;t see any downside of this approach.

p.s. I am no thinking about ways have maximum profits. I am only looking for alternatives to the donation model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-11103" rel="nofollow">Andrew</a>, you understood and answered my questions perfectly, thank you.</p>
<blockquote><p>You cannot be paid for your time and effort without agreeing beforehand that the customer will pay for that.</p></blockquote>
<p>But I need to create a product <em>before</em> I can sell it. In fact, every product is created in hopes of recouping the costs only after it has gone on sale.</p>
<p>Or are you saying that my time spent working on a GPL plugin doesn&#8217;t qualify as work for which I can charge (indirectly) by applying a price to the resulting product? Does it even matter if I am charging for my work or for hosting the API?</p>
<p>I am trying to figure out a way to generate revenue from WordPress plugins or themes which doesn&#8217;t limit the access to the product and at the same time gives reason to pay for it. Here is what I have come up with, so far:</p>
<ol>
<li>Release a plugin and charge users $10 for downloading it.</li>
<li>Make the source code available <strong>freely</strong> through an SVN repository, so that those who know how to use it and are most likely to improve or help fix it can use it for free.</li>
<li>Charge $5 for any update that adds new features while bug fix and security releases are free for everyone.</li>
</ol>
<p>If someone decides to fork the plugin and upload it to the WordPress repository everytime there is a new update, they are free to do it and I wouldn&#8217;t mind. I would still remain the trustworthy source of the original.</p>
<p>This way the whole community could enjoy the continued development of the plugin while the contributing users would receive certain percentage of the revenue generated by that particular update.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see any downside of this approach.</p>
<p>p.s. I am no thinking about ways have maximum profits. I am only looking for alternatives to the donation model.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11103</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11103</guid>
		<description>Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by &#039;better&#039;?

Are you fundamentally questioning the benefit of GPL for all users in the long run?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by &#8216;better&#8217;?</p>
<p>Are you fundamentally questioning the benefit of GPL for all users in the long run?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11102</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11102</guid>
		<description>I think your conclusion is correct. You can only sell access to your version. That might include distribution, postage, etc, bandwidth costs if it is on your server, but if you assign it a GPL license you are assigning freedoms that then stop you charging for anything else.

The problem you have here is that you are confusing recouping costs you have voluntarily incurred (time and effort) with being paid for your time. You cannot be paid for your time and effort without agreeing beforehand that the customer will pay for that.

For example, if I ask you to build me something you can charge me an amount per hour for the time it takes you. If you create it first and then try and sell me something you are trying to recoup your costs by selling me the product, but I am paying for the product, not your time.

If you have chosen to give me the freedom to do what I want with that product, once I have it, it is mine. I can give it to everyone else for free. That doesn&#039;t stop you charging for access to your version, you just have to hope that no one figures out they can get it from me.

Charging for the service isn&#039;t better for the user. But it doesn&#039;t contradict anything in the GPL. They are still paying for access but they are paying for something where you can control that access without contradicting the license.

The best thing for the user is for you to GPL the plugin and offer the API for free because they can then get your plugin from another source, pay nothing, and use the  API for nothing. It would suck for you though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your conclusion is correct. You can only sell access to your version. That might include distribution, postage, etc, bandwidth costs if it is on your server, but if you assign it a GPL license you are assigning freedoms that then stop you charging for anything else.</p>
<p>The problem you have here is that you are confusing recouping costs you have voluntarily incurred (time and effort) with being paid for your time. You cannot be paid for your time and effort without agreeing beforehand that the customer will pay for that.</p>
<p>For example, if I ask you to build me something you can charge me an amount per hour for the time it takes you. If you create it first and then try and sell me something you are trying to recoup your costs by selling me the product, but I am paying for the product, not your time.</p>
<p>If you have chosen to give me the freedom to do what I want with that product, once I have it, it is mine. I can give it to everyone else for free. That doesn&#8217;t stop you charging for access to your version, you just have to hope that no one figures out they can get it from me.</p>
<p>Charging for the service isn&#8217;t better for the user. But it doesn&#8217;t contradict anything in the GPL. They are still paying for access but they are paying for something where you can control that access without contradicting the license.</p>
<p>The best thing for the user is for you to GPL the plugin and offer the API for free because they can then get your plugin from another source, pay nothing, and use the  API for nothing. It would suck for you though.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaspars</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11101</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaspars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11101</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You can’t sell code that already exists, you can only sell a license to use it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In case of GPL it would mean selling users &lt;em&gt;their freedom&lt;/em&gt; to use the software, because that is the only thing GPL license protects, right?

Therefore, I think that the only thing I can sell is the access to &lt;strong&gt;my version&lt;/strong&gt; of the software, isn&#039;t it? Once they buy it, it becomes their version with all the attached freedoms of GPL. It would be the access that I charge for, not the code.

&lt;blockquote&gt;On the other hand, charging for a web service is actually making a charge for providing something.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So I can&#039;t charge for &lt;em&gt;my&lt;/em&gt; work and time improving &lt;em&gt;my copy&lt;/em&gt; and giving it away, but I can charge for a service that is, in a way, exclusive and proprietary?

I still fail to understand how charging for a service is better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You can’t sell code that already exists, you can only sell a license to use it.</p></blockquote>
<p>In case of GPL it would mean selling users <em>their freedom</em> to use the software, because that is the only thing GPL license protects, right?</p>
<p>Therefore, I think that the only thing I can sell is the access to <strong>my version</strong> of the software, isn&#8217;t it? Once they buy it, it becomes their version with all the attached freedoms of GPL. It would be the access that I charge for, not the code.</p>
<blockquote><p>On the other hand, charging for a web service is actually making a charge for providing something.</p></blockquote>
<p>So I can&#8217;t charge for <em>my</em> work and time improving <em>my copy</em> and giving it away, but I can charge for a service that is, in a way, exclusive and proprietary?</p>
<p>I still fail to understand how charging for a service is better.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11100</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11100</guid>
		<description>The big difference between the two from a user perspective is that, in one you are trying to restrict their rights to use the plugin code, perhaps to access someone elses API or present the information differently, in the other you are letting them do what they want.

Even though they technically have that right in either case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big difference between the two from a user perspective is that, in one you are trying to restrict their rights to use the plugin code, perhaps to access someone elses API or present the information differently, in the other you are letting them do what they want.</p>
<p>Even though they technically have that right in either case.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11099</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11099</guid>
		<description>One is clearly more in line with the GPL.

You can&#039;t sell code that already exists, you can only sell a license to use it. If it is under GPL you have already made the licensing choice so you can pretend to offer useage licenses but they are uninforcable because the GPL prevents you from creating those restrictions.

On the other hand, charging for a web service is actually making a charge for providing something. It is on your server, it is doing processing of information on demand, there are running costs involved. It makes sense to charge for that.

Finally, even if all the code on your web service is GPL, it doesn&#039;t matter. You don&#039;t have to give the code away and nothing stops you charging for or restricting access to the information that results from running the code.

(In my opinion :-) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One is clearly more in line with the GPL.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t sell code that already exists, you can only sell a license to use it. If it is under GPL you have already made the licensing choice so you can pretend to offer useage licenses but they are uninforcable because the GPL prevents you from creating those restrictions.</p>
<p>On the other hand, charging for a web service is actually making a charge for providing something. It is on your server, it is doing processing of information on demand, there are running costs involved. It makes sense to charge for that.</p>
<p>Finally, even if all the code on your web service is GPL, it doesn&#8217;t matter. You don&#8217;t have to give the code away and nothing stops you charging for or restricting access to the information that results from running the code.</p>
<p>(In my opinion :-) )</p>
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		<title>By: Kaspars</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11098</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaspars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11098</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with you on that, Andrew.

Let&#039;s say we have this plugin that must interact with an API to be fully functional. We want to monetize it, so we can either (a) charge for the plugin (download) and give the API access for free, or (b) give the plugin away for free and charge for the API key.

Is either of the option more in line with GPL or are they exactly the same from the users&#039; perspective?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with you on that, Andrew.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say we have this plugin that must interact with an API to be fully functional. We want to monetize it, so we can either (a) charge for the plugin (download) and give the API access for free, or (b) give the plugin away for free and charge for the API key.</p>
<p>Is either of the option more in line with GPL or are they exactly the same from the users&#8217; perspective?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://konstruktors.com/blog/wordpress/1688-pricey-gpl-thought-experiment/#comment-11097</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://konstruktors.com/blog/?p=1688#comment-11097</guid>
		<description>Releasing a GPL plugin that interfaces with a paid service is entirely within the spirit of the GPL in my opinion. The plugin user has the option to rewrite it to use the information it gets in another way, that is their right, but there is no reason why they need access to the data or the code that underlies the web service.

Or am I misunderstanding the question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Releasing a GPL plugin that interfaces with a paid service is entirely within the spirit of the GPL in my opinion. The plugin user has the option to rewrite it to use the information it gets in another way, that is their right, but there is no reason why they need access to the data or the code that underlies the web service.</p>
<p>Or am I misunderstanding the question?</p>
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